Special Report (January 20, 1978)

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UNION OF BRITISH COLUMBIA INDIAN CHIEFS



PECIAL REPORT

FisH FORUM

January 20, 1978.



The Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs recently held a provincial Fish Forum on December 15th and 16th, at the St. Edmunds Hall,
in North Vancouver. Representation came from the North Coast, Gitksan-Carrier, Bella Coola, East and West Fraser, Thomp-
son Nicola, Kwakeewlth, Lillooet, West Coast, Okanagan Districts and from the Native Brotherhood. The purpose of the
conference was to discuss various issues threatening Indian Fishing Rights. Most of you are aware of the many problems and
difficulties we are facing with the increasing threat of having our rights taken away completely. We have to begin discussions
at a Provincial level to establish a working committee to deal with and counter these very serious threats. Steven Point, respon-
sible for the Fishing Portfolio, chaired the conference. The first meeting was not “‘official’’: everyone who came to the Forum

was a delegate.

GEORGE MANUEL, president of U:B.C.1.C. in his
opening remarks, apologized for calling the conference just
before the holidays, and with no money to finance the dele-
gates, and appreciated the fact that the people saw the
fishing issue a great enough concern to attend the Provin-
cial Fish Forum. He told the assembly of approximately
one hundred people —

“it is you who is going to decide if fishing

is a problem, and if it is a crisis, what we

are going to do about it”.

George stated that if the central office of the Union of B.C.
Indian Chiefs is going to take any action, the direction has
to come from the people concerned, with full involvement
and active participation, in order to mobilize.

Throughout the forum, George expressed grave con-
cern about the threats to our food fishing, because he sees a
pattern emerging, the same pattern that developed in the
late sixties — which ended up with a regulation, enforced by
law, to compel Indian people to cut off the noses and for-
sal fins from food fish. He stated there had been a cam-
paign on the part of the Department of Fisheries leading up
to this legislation.

Now George Manueal saw the same campaign last sum-
mer — pressure and harassment throughout the province, a
campaign professionally done to force a quota for food
fishing. There is certain speculation that the Fisheries
Department is going to propose a quota system — the Press
is already suggesting a certain number of fish for each
family be the rule.

In the case of cutting off the nose and dorsal fin, we
made no real campaign against it and that is why it came in-
to existence.

We have to raise the subject in the media and start
our own campaign against such a proposal — before it
comes into existence. Once it comes into existence, it will
be too late.

George felt strongly that it is more than a disgrace,
the way Indian People have been treated by the Depart-
ment of Fisheries. He also felt that strategies should be
developed to combat the problem with the Fisheries De-
partment, to ensure that justice is done to our people.
Because it is a UBCIC responsibility, the main office is
prepared to co-ordinate meetings on fishing rights through-
out the province.



RIVER FISHING IN THE PAST Baptiste Ritchie
Baptiste Ritchie talked about fishing in his earlier years,
when people built wiers at the Birken River, with traps on

each side. At that time, people
caught as much fresh salmon as
they needed — then the salmon were
let go to spawn. He talked about
the D’Arcy, where people caught
thousands of salmon and hung them
along the beach on scaffolds to dry.
There were millions of fish in the
river, he said. No one told when to
stop fishing.



And today they are still making mistakes, he said —
at the artificial spawning grounds nearby, there are rocks as
big as the fist, instead of gravel for the fish to bury their
eggs in. “Nothing can beat nature: but the white people
have been trying for years and | have yet to see them
succeed”,

FRESH WATER FISHING TODAY
Jacob Kruger:

Jake spoke on the fresh water fishing as it is today up in
the Kootenay/Okanagan areas. The fish there are pretty
well depleted: “It’s very hard for a person to derive a meal
just once a year’. There are still a few fish that spawn in the
creeks but the creeks are drying out far too soon, in early
July, and the fingerlings are lucky to make it back to the
lakes. The Kokanee-that do survive rarely get caught on the
end of a line and besides: “the fish caught in most of these
areas, we cannot eat and the reason for this is that they smell
like sewers and are polluted in one way or another’. The
only reason a person goes out on the water is to sit and
think now.

The only solution now, said
Jake, is a concentrated effort by
both the White people and the In- |
dian people to start ahatchery some- |
where in the Interior, with equal
deciding powers, so that in ten or
fifteen years, maybe people will be
able to go out and get a meal again.

* “So my report from my area
does not help much because we are
just a bit too late, because the fish
are already polluted, but for you
that still have a chance, | hope that
you start now because tomorrow
will be too late”, :

The only hope that Jake saw for this is for Indian
people to be in at the decision making in the upper govern-
ment levels “otherwise the decision will be one-sided, and
the favour will not be in yours”.



THE LUMMI TRIBE AND
THE BOLDT DECISION



Two representatives from the Lummi Tribal Council, Alvin
Coultee and Georgianne Bergsman, gave an overview on the
Judge Boldt decision and the impact of that decision on the
Indian people and their fishing rights struggle in the State of
Washington. The decision handed down gave the Indian
people a 50 — 50 split of the harvestable catch. This split
did not include the on-reserve, off-reserve for subsistence
catch or the fish caught for ceremonial purposes. The deci-
sion also gave the Indian people a greater degree of control
over what was once their traditional pursuit,

The decision limited State control
“to the extent reasonable and necessary
for the conservation of the resource”’,

and goes on to state

“where a tribe demonstrates to the
satisfaction of the court that it is
able and willing to self-regulate in
a manner that will protect the fish
runs, then further State regulation
is not necessary and may not be
exercised”.

RELEVANCE TO B.C.
The Boldt decision is important to the Indian people in B.C.
because, as Steven Point put it

“I’m sure some of the people here

are wandering about the relevance

of talking about the Boldt decision.

! think one of the reasons we asked

these people to come up and give

us a picture of what’s happening is

because / can see this kind of thing

happening to the Indian people in

this province a couple of years down

the road. | think we‘ve got to be

prepared for this kind of decision”.
This gives us an idea of the importance of the Boldt deci-
sion, not only to the people in the State of Washington,
but here in B.C. as well. The Boldt decision

“lays a trail for the rest of the

Indian people and it is a big threat,

not only to the U.S, government,

but to the Canadian government

also — what the Indian people can

accomplish”.

NEED FOR ECONOMIC BASE
The decision was a major victory for the Indian people, but
the struggle leading up to this had been going on a long time,
100 years, and the Lummi people saw no end to it! Alvin
talked about the circumstances in his tribe that led to the
legal case:

“in 1968, we were looking for some

kind of economic base to offset the

poverty that we were experiencing on

the Lummi reservations; as you know,

Lummi was a very poor reservation

back in those days. We had a lot of

fighting to do, The people were on

welfare, there was no kind of economic.

base, 75% of the people didn’t have

jobs, but we had one thing — and that

was our fisheries... [t’s not only

something we‘’re dependent upon .. .

itis very sacred to us”,

BEFORE GOING TO COURT

In taking their fight into the courts, the Indian people
in the State of Washington had to be prepared to deal with
the legal complications involved in such a step. When asked
by Neil Sterritt of the Gitksan-Carrier Tribal Council what
advice the Indian people from Washington had to offer the
people in B.C., so that we here can avoid some of the pit-
falls, Alvin was very definite:

“vou definitely have to have your
homework done as far as your research
is concerned... we had to do a lot of
leg-work, talking to all the elders and
the historians, to establish where our
ancestors actually did fish. This had
to be established in court... You
have to gather data... you have to
have a good public relations staff...
The government is giving your people
the run-around, They ‘re building brush-
fires so you can spread out and run
around stomping out these little brush-
fires and keeping you away from the
real issues”,
When asked if they were ready for the Boldt decision, and
all its implications, Alvin admitted:
“we weren't ready and prepared for
that decision... neither was the
State of Washington”.

PUBLIC OPINION

Ed Newman brought up the point of opposition coming
from white people, particularly from white fishing unions,
who are already mobilizing against the possibility in B.C.
Alvin agreed that there was, in fact, a backlash of public
opinion, mainly from the white sports and commercial
fishermen. These people have the financial and lobbying)
strength to maintain a constant stream of legal and some-
times illegal harassment against the Indian people.

Today the Indian people in Washington are still before
the courts trying to maintain their rights as given to them
by Judge Boldt in his decision. Many long and costly legal
battles are still being fought over the implementation and
interpretation of that decision.

UNITY VITAL
Rounding off the Lummi presentation, Alvin stressed the
Indian struggle in the U.S. and Canada:

“Once you people up there start

doing battle with the government,

you have to get all the documented

information and get your act to-

gether before you go up before the

courts, because you are fighting for

your lives, as much as we are down

here. As the Chairman said, we have

to fight together because if we don’t

unite and start supporting each other,

both of the governments are going to

be picking us off one by one, They

don‘t want to see us unite... If we

do unite, we'll be a lot stronger”.
All in all, the Lummi people had some good advice to offer
the people here in B.C., in light of their long and varied
experiences. They also show what level of sophistication and
political astuteness the Indian people in the State of
Washington excercised in their fight to gain and hold on to
a very important part of their traditional heritage, their
fishing rights. Their struggle should not be looked at lightly
as we, the Indian people in B.C., have along way to go anda
long uphill fight to wage before we attain the degree of
sovereignty that has been achieved by the Indian people in
the south,

THE FISHERMEN MEET THE
FISHERIES DEPARTMENT

Dr. Johnstone was appointed Director General of the Fish-
eries Department early last summer. He assured the people
at the Forum that fishing priorities are still:



1. conservation
2: Indian food fishing
x commercial and sport fishing

Our special privileges are recognized in food fishing because
of our historic dependence on this resource, but Dr. John-
stone felt that food fishing across the country should still
be subject to the laws of the Federal Fisheries.

He also felt that:

“If we are going to meet your requirements for food
fishing, then we must know what these food requirements
are. The lack of a definition of what the requirements are
is really a major problem. . . We want to provide for the
reasonable requirements you have and if we are going to do
that, we need to have an idea of what these are .. . so if all
the Bands would all give us information on what the food
fishing requirements are”.

Dr. Johnstone ended his report by talking about the diffi-
culties of making decisions and settling the issues that be-
long in the arena of Land Claims and Aboriginal Rights.
The Fisheries Department does not have the authority to
do this. However, in this whole discussion of Land Claims,
Dr. Johnstone recognised the importance of fishing, and
will be concerned in such negotiations.

After his talk, people asked questions and told him
of problems they are having with the Department.,

TEL) OF ADI
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4

Lonie Hindell, Wally Johnston, Steve Point.

FIREARMS
Neil Sterrit, Gitksan-Carrier:

“| think that there are enforcement agencies around
the world that do fairly well without arms and | really
question that policy. It should be questioned by the Fed.
Fisheries’.

Dr. Johnstone:

“Well | certainly acknowledge that point. | personally
feel exactly as you do. The policy was established before |
was in this position. | think | would have been extremely
opposed to it myself and | certainly will examine this point”.

DOG PATROLS
Chief John George of Chilliwack:

“There's been a lot of complaints in and around the
Fraser Valley: a few of these Fishery officers are taking
along with them trained dogs . . . it is very dangerous to
have this sort of dog: what would happen if the guy got
knocked over — there is no control on that dog at all.
There are not only fishermen along that river, you know,
there are families too, You wouldn’t want me to go down
around your yard with my trained dog ... We are very
much against these dog patrols because they are vicious”.

Dr, Johnstone:
“Well | certainly recognise your point. If | were there,
with my family, I'd feel exactly the same way”.

ENFORCEMENT TACTICS:
Neil Sterrit from Gitksan-Carrier:

“We recognise that some of the basic objectives of the
Indian people are the same as the Federal Fisheries — and
that is to have the fish run up the river forever, And lots of
fish for Indian people and for other people in North
America. Our big concern is the tactics that Federal Fisher-
ies used this year — which are, we feel, unnecessary and in
many cases, the record is proveri now through the courts...
that the tactics were out of hand and unnecessary:



H
o

Dr. Johnstone:
“All | can say is hindsight is better than foresight.
| think things did get a little out of hand this summer”.

4
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i]

SPORTS FISHING:
Ray Nahanee, Squamish Band Chief:



“The B.C. Fisheries Department came to us and said —
we want you to stop fishing. We told them — stop the
sports fishermen; they are running sweepstakes and derbies,
they have commercialised sports fishing and yet they turn
around and say: ‘you, Indian, are not going to go fishing,
you are not going to take any fish out of that river’. So
now I’m going into winter with no salmon”,

Ed Newman, Native Brotherhood:

“| would like to say to Dr. Johnstone that Fisheries
Department should clean up their act too. They seem to
have two sets of rules; one for Indian food fishing and the
other for white sports fishermen . . . A lot of time we're
not allowed to go out food fishing, yet we see lots of
American sports fishermen coming in and out — and in my
opinion they do the most damage. Now it hurts when |
hear these people talking to each other on VHF and saying
‘I’ve got my freezer full, have you got room in yours’.
Why is it that there are two sets of rules?”

Dr. Johnstone:
“We have a real problem with sports fishing, in as
much as it is spread all over hell, hard to patrol and we

pelt

don’t have enough officers to keep a hand on it”.

WINTER FISHING HOURS
Linda Johnston from Lakahamen:

“We fish from 6 p.m. Thursday to 6 p.m. Sunday
as you no doubt are aware. In this weather, when we set
out in our boat it gets colder and darker and probably
freezing, we're waiting for 6 p.m. so we can set out; then
we come back up the river — if we can’t afford a big boat
with lights on, which many can’t — then maybe we'll hit a
deadhead in the middle of the river, which has happened a
few times. Now why can't that time be changed so that we
can set out at 3 p.m. — or any other time ..

NOSES AND DORSAL FINS
Linda Johnston from Lakahamen:

“And these lousy fins . . if you’re going to take them
home for food fishing, why do the fins have to be cut? and
the noses? It’s a miserable job in this kind of weather, sitting
out there and the night is cold, the knife gets dull and the
light’s no good; and my six year old is probably howling a-
bout it being too cold — and here we’ve got to get these
tough old noses off before you date put it in the car to bring
home?’.

Dr. Johnstone:

“I'll certainly look into both of these questions...
sounds as if both are a bit unreasonable. . .

EMPLOYMENT OF INDIAN
PEOPLE IN DEPARTMENT
OF FISHERIES:

Ed Newman:

"Why doesn’t the Fisher-
ies Department hire Indian pe-
ople and when they do hire
Indian people, why are they
the first people to let go when
the season is over? Why don’t
they hire on a full time basis,
not on a token basis?

Dr. Johnstone:
“Well | promise there is going to be more recruitment
of native people to full-time jobs in the Department.

FISHERIES OFFICERS EDUCATED ABOUT INDIAN
FISHING TRADITIONS.

Steve Carpenter of the Native Brotherhood and Ernie Willie
of the Union of B,C, Indian Chiefs, both recommended that
the Fisheries Department field officers, if not all staff,
should recognise the importance of fish to the Indian people
of B.C. — for food, in our culture and in our religion. It is
so often ignorance of this that is the basis of misunderstand-
ings and confrontations.

Dr. Johnstone:

“the training of new fishery officers on the native
traditions in respect to fish is an excellent idea. | think we
should think of adopting this into part of our training
program ... giving our people a better insight’’.

BAND CONTROL
Dr. Johnstone:

“In a number of areas we have developed a system
whereby the whole food fish permit system is put into the
hands of the local Band Council for their traditional fishing
grounds. In this way the Band Council issues individual per-
mits to their members . . . Now I'm really interested in
seeing that we further extend this system of putting the
control of food fishing into the hands of Band Councils
and we are going to be actively pushing it and seeing if we



could expand this on a much broader scale than we have
right now”.

PARTICIPATION IN THE WEST COAST OIL PORTS
INQUIRY

Victor Reece and Mary Lou Andrews asked how the depart-
ment was contributing.

Dr. Johnstone:

“Ne are participating; we have considerable numbers
of the staff who have been working full time on this. We've
been gathering all the information on the fisheries resource
possible, We are laying this on the table, We are studying any
proponents of an oil port and we believe our responsibility
is for the conservation and preservation of the fisheries
resource’,

TRADITIONAL INDIAN
COMMERCIAL FISHING
Victor Reece from Prince Rupert:

“There are areas of traditional food that's being en-
croached upon — sea weed, oolichans, clams, abalone and
other types of traditional foods . . . now where are the
regulations that you talk about to control this kind of thing”.

Dr. Johnstone:

“| think we have made a number of, what | judge to
be, rather bad mistakes in allowing certain commercial fish-
eries to develop in an uncontrolled fashion ... in the future
we are going to take a much firmer look at these things...
but at least the action | have taken on the roe-on-kelp
industry is a good indication of where | stand — that is the
involvement of native peoples in such fisheries.”

EROSION OF SALMON RUNS
Clifford Louis (Lakes District)

“In Stellaqua, erosion of our fishing rights began in
1911, with the implementation of the barrier agreement,
which was an agreement concerning the Stuart, Stellaqua
and Nautley rivers for conservation purposes. We were asked
to remove our wiers and were given nets. Gradually the
Department of Fisheries imposed several more restrictions —
such as: reduction of salmon take, where to set nets, and
what days to set nets — and then made several promises —
but theonly promise that the Department has kept is to take
away our right to fish and | think conservation is a smoke-
screen to take away our right to fish”,

Ed Moody (Bella Coola):

“Our people have had fishing rights since we have
existed and that’s the way it will remain.

Salmon runs have never been threated by our food
fishing because we have always taken just what we needed
for our families.

Itis many other factors which have depleted or ruined
some runs. Things such as: over-logging, floods, pollution,
stream-damage, etc. It is these things that must be closely
observed to determine ways of correcting it or comingtoa
solution,

FIGHT FOR FISHING RIGHTS
Don Moses:

“we are not going to back off these issues. It's worth
too much to the Indian people in these areas. That's worth a
hell of a lot more than you yourself (Dr. Johnstone) probab-
ly realize. I've always felt that, and a lot of people in the
Interior have always felt that way, this is a multi-million
dollar source of food for our people and neither you or any-
body else is going to stopit...

We use the system and still we can’t get anywhere with
it. So you know, you really make me wonder about where
we're headed. Unless you make some real serious efforts —
not just statements — unless you bring Indian people into
the fishery on a full time basis, and unless you involve us in
policy-making and policing ... these are the kind of things
that are going to improve our relationship’’.

GEORGE MANUEL’S STATEMENT TO DR. WALLEY
JOHNSTONE

! am appalled at how unprepared you are, in coming to this
meeting, You aren't taking this conference seriously, Our
delegation is very concerned about the harrasments and the
the tokenism coming from your department. Your minister's
priorities are:

1. Conservation
2. Indian Food Fishing
3. Commercial and Sports Fishing

We feel that conservation and food fishing go hand in hand.

However we are concerned about the economic and
financial power the sports fishermen hold. They are given
more rights with the priorities than our people, who have
the fishing rights and who need the fish resource for survival
and food. We intend to zero in on this.

You also stated that your officers are highly trained. |
dispute this because the enforcement officers use unethical
methods to lay charges and convict our people. The majority
of your fishery officers are incompetant and | am concerned
that there is a public relations firm hired to campaign and
harrass our people, giving bad publicity in the eyes of the
public in order to impose more regulations. It concerns me
because you are talking down to us and not with us. This
will only worsen and not improve any developments to-

wards a constructive plan for reproduction and conservation.

of the fish.

We are victims of oppressive laws and are becoming
more so with increased regulations; such as the cutting off
of the nose and dorsel fin on fish, This is an insult to our
integrity and is a direct insult to the Indian people. We were
here first and the fish is part of our survival, culture and
history. We have an unemployment rate of 57% on a year
round basis, with fishing today more important to our
survival, especially important to the unemployed. And today
you are merely trying to pacify us and | cannot accept that.
Thank you.

WALLEY JOHNSTONE’S REPLY TO GEORGE MANU-
EL’S STATEMENT

| find it a bit shocking to be accused of being insincere and
talking down. | apologize, | agree 100%, George, that not all
of our officers are well trained. No race, no religion, no
group of people have at any time claimed they have got the
corner market on horses because there are just as many hor-
ses asses as there are horses in any group of people on earth.
| can assure you, | nor anyone else is going to change the
human nature to the point that all the people working for
the fisheries department are going to be just wonderful,
perfect people; just as | can guarantee that all the Indian
people are not perfect, beautiful, wonderful, and faultless
people. We all have problems in our midst and ! assure you
there are legitimate claims. There is going to be some action
taken with the people that | have.

| recognize what speaker after speaker has said here
today, that they feel that there is an obvious harrassment of
of Indian people when it comes to enforcement. | am going
to take some action to work out problems that have been
mentioned to me. But for God’s sake give me a chance.
Don’t accuse me of being insincere, of talking down, | want
to talk with you. | want to work with you and the only way
we can do that is by being very direct with each other. And
| know George, that is what your aim is, to be very direct
with me.



NATIVE BROTHERHOOD

Ed Newman, President, and Steve Carpenter represented the
commercial fishermen and their interests at the Forum.
When opening the meeting, George Manuel reported that

both the Native Brotherhood and the Chiefs’ Council had
passed resolutions recently to work together on common
interest and issues. Ed Newman confirmed: “| was very
happy today to hear George Manuel when he spoke, when he
said there is room for us to work together, to co-operate
with one another. We would like to work together with
any organization that is working for the betterment of the
Indian people.

The major concern of the Native Brotherhood is to
keep Indian fishermen in the commercial industry. The
Indian fishermen used to make up a third of the fleet — and
now make up only 15%, Whole communities have been
pushed out of the commercial industry. “‘Most of the com-
munities in the central (coast) area depend totally on
fishing industry to make a living. This is the only way we
have to improve ourselves socially and economically” Ed
Newman told the delegates.

So they were glad to talk to the representatives of
the Lummi tribe about the effects of the Boldt decision on
commercial fishing in Washington — and how the Indian
fleet was coping with their 50% share of the harvestable
catch. It seems that the smaller Indian fleet is benefiting but
still has a hard time competing and needs a couple of extra
days to get their quota — for which they are fighting at the
moment. Steve Carpenter had plenty of questions about
their training and education of game wardens, management,
biologists and technicians at the ‘Lummi School of Aqua-
culture’. This had helped them in getting back their fishing
rights.

“Il guess what I'm trying to get across to the people is
that education of the people would be definitely in their
favour. . . recommend that B.C. Indians go the same route,
education and training, to achieve our goals for fishing
rights”.

Another major concern of the Native Brotherhood is
the Salmon Enhancement program. At first the Indian fish-
erman were promised a part in the industry and in the
decision making about both the Enhancement and the Cost
Recovery Programs — but now fishermen have been present-
ed with an ultimatum: either they pay for the program, and
in a way decided in Ottawa, or there will be no Salmon
Enhancement program. As Ed Newman pointed out: “‘There
is no precedent in the history of B.C. of the people ever
paying forthe cost ofrehabilitating any natural resource. . .
the Native Brotherhood of B.C. opposes any Cost Recovery.
Program’. The Union supports the Native Brotherhood on
this issue entirely.

Members of the Native Brotherhood joined other dele-
gates in complaints of tokenism, discrimination and lack of
concern for Indian rights and interests on the part of the
Fisheries Department. “‘You people seem to take our prob-
lems very lightly and we cannot accept that”, Ed Newman
told Dr. Johnson,” so you can't blame us for getting angry
at times. Some of the things your department decides are a
definite threat to our fishing rights. Some of these regula-
tions are a definite threat to the Indian people involved in
commercial fishing. . . | fully support the statements that
George Manuel made here today’’.

The Native Brotherhood will be represented on the
Provincial Fish Committee that is being set up as a result of
this meeting.

PROVINCIAL FISH COMMITTEE

At the end of the Forum, Stephen Point was made respon-
sible for re-activating the Provincial Fish Committee, noti-
fying all the Indian organisations and for starting to organise
meetings. This committee will report to the General Assem-
bly in April.

As a result of the Provincial Fish Forum, there was a
telephone call from the Federal Fisheries Dept., in Ottawa,
requesting a meeting between the Minister of Fisheries,
Romeo le Blanc and George Manuel, Union of B.C. Indian
Chiefs for January 23, 1978.

%

UNION OF
BRITISH COLUMBIA INDIAN CHIEFS

TENTH ANNUAL
GENERAL
ASSENBLY

ON APRIL 19th, 20th and 21st

AT THE PEACH BOWL CONVENTION CENTRE
PENTICTON, B.C.

Substantial time will be given to fishing issues.
Please come and share with us your concerns and
thoughts on the issues confronting us about our
right to fish. (However, please be aware that only
official delegates will be re-imbursed for travel and
accommodation at the time of the Assembly.)